#1 Red___Sword (主贴发起者，大家都很熟悉的三道杠)

Originally Posted by bd popeye
Exactly.. Most unfortunately many Americans could not find China on a map.

...【引用】原发表者 bd popeye (头像黑勋爵，自我称号“最后的绝地武士”)
确实如此，相当不幸的是，许多美国人在地图上指不出中国在哪里。

Lord Vader, are you serious?
I know that statistic shows average Americans can not find Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran... those of which (no offence) they send their boys and girls to die for, yet even the name of the country is hard to remember; but can not find the one big ass nation which is the 3rd biggest of the whole damn planet - that hurts.

Average Chinese people who finished their middle school, would know that US is at west hemishere, sit at the BEST part of North America continent, and although can not name all, can tell there are 50 states of the "smaller than us" country (that's the funny part, China got 34 provinces "only"), 2 of which are situated outside the mainland, which "taken" from someone else... no offence intented.

瓦德勋爵，你是认真的吗？
我知道有数据显示，普通的美国人搞不清楚阿富汗、伊拉克、伊朗在哪里，他们将自己的孩子送到那里付出生命（我无意冒犯），到头来却连这些国家的名字都拼不清楚。但是，搞不清这个小破星球上第三大的国家在哪，也太让人蛋疼了。

在中国，一个普普通通的初中毕业生都知道：美国，是一个位于西半球，坐拥北美大陆最富饶的土地，包含50个州（尽管名字说不全）的，面积稍小于我们的，国家（而有趣的是，中国“仅仅”只有34个省），其中两个州孤悬海外，是从别人手里“拿过来”的…（还是无意冒犯）。

No sh*t, this is not propaganda, any semi-educated Chinese people can find USA at the map - that's not fair, if there is any "G2" going on yet one country-men can not find the other on map. (Edit: I am not selling "G2", I am undermining it in fact)
Chinese wisdom believes self-occlude kills a mighty empire - no small talk here.

这可不是胡说，任何受过一点教育的中国人都能在地图上找到美利坚。这明显不公平：如果有一个国家的人都不能知道另一个国家在什么位置，他们在一起，能被称作“基2”吗？（我没有在兜售G2的概念，事实上我抵制它）。
古人云：夫闭关自守者，国恒亡。可不是说说而已。
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09-04-2011, 04:43 AM
#2 bd popeye
The Last Jedi
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
No offence taken Red__Sword!
And I am serious. Many Americans are poor at geography. Even that of the US.
China must be doing a better job at geography..

谈不上冒犯。我很认真。许多美国人对地理所知无多，哪怕是美国地理。中国在地理知识上一定比美国人做得好

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09-16-2011, 01:21 AM
#3 vesicles
Location Texas
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Originally Posted by Red___Sword
Lord Vader, are you serious?
I know that statistic shows average Americans can not find Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran... those of which (no offence) they send their boys and girls to die for, yet even the name of the country is hard to remember; but can not find the one big ass nation which is the 3rd biggest of the whole damn planet - that hurts.
Average Chinese people who finished their middle school, would know that US is at west hemishere, sit at the BEST part of North America continent, and although can not name all, can tell there are 50 states of the "smaller than us" country (that's the funny part, China got 34 provinces "only"), 2 of which are situated outside the mainland, which "taken" from someone else... no offence intented.
No sh*t, this is not propaganda, any semi-educated Chinese people can find USA at the map - that's not fair, if there is any "G2" going on yet one country-men can not find the other on map. (Edit: I am not selling "G2", I am undermining it in fact)
Chinese wisdom believes self-occlude kills a mighty empire - no small talk here.

Chill, man. It is fact that most Americans are poor with geography. It is mostly because of the difference in education systems in China vs. the US. In China, all courses are required. So everyone has to take geography. However, most of the subjects in American schools are elective and don't have to be taken, except English, math, political science, American history and some kind of science. As you can imagine, geography is not the most exciting class and not many kids take it. Many Americans cannot even draw the general shape of their own state, let alone the location of another country. This is not to say anything about the quality of the education system in the States, only that it is different from that of China.

【引用】#1红剑
瓦德勋爵，你是认真的吗？

我知道有数据显示，普通的美国人搞不清楚阿富汗、伊拉克、伊朗在哪里…

放轻松，伙计。大部分美国人地理很糟糕，这是事实。这主要是因为中美教育制度的不同。在中国，所有科目都要学，所以每个人都得上地理课。但在美国，大部分的课程都是选修，除了英语、数学、政治学、美国历史和一些科学课，其他课程并不是必须的。你想想就明白，地理肯定不是最吸引人的课程，没多少孩子会选的。许多美国人连自己州的大概形状都画不出来，更不用说其他国家在哪里了。这与美国教育制度的优劣无关，仅仅是与中国不同罢了。

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09-16-2011, 03:06 AM
#4 PanAsian
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Not to sound like it's a conspiracy theory; the poor education in world history (including geography) that most Americans get conveniently allow the US elite to either put on a pedestal or demonize any country/culture/society/government and easily sell the message to its own people.

我不想发表阴谋论，但是：大多数美国人在世界历史（还有地理）方面所受到的那点可怜的教育，使得美国的精英们能够轻易地对任何国家、文化、社会、政府进行鼓吹或是妖魔化，再灌输给自己的民众。

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09-16-2011, 03:51 AM
#5 vesicles
Location Texas
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Originally Posted by PanAsian
Not to sound like it's a conspiracy theory; the poor education in world history (including geography) that most Americans get conveniently allow the US elite to either put on a pedestal or demonize any country/culture/society/government and easily sell the message to its own people.
To be honest, I actually like the American system. Why? When I was in China, my focus was heavily biased toward math and science. My dad always says if I stayed in China and finished schooling there, I would never be able to get in a good college. This is because China's system wants people to be good with everything. You will have to get a high total score for all the subjects to get into a good college. For me, the courses like Chinese, political science and geography would drag me down so bad and my total score would not be high enough to get in any good colleges. When I came to the State, however, I was able to choose those courses that I liked and thrive.

【引用】#4我不想发表阴谋论，但是…

坦率的说，我更喜欢美国的教育制度。为什么？还在中国的时候，我向数、理偏科严重。我父亲总是说如果我留在中国完成学业的话，我一定上不了好大学的。因为中国的教育制度要求学生全面发展，你必须所有科目都拿高分以获得一个好的总成绩才能进好大学。对我来说，语文、政治、地理就是严重拖后腿的科目，总分不好看好大学就没戏了。但是，当我来美国之后，能选择那些我喜欢的课程了，我便茁壮成长。

I think I fit much better in this kind of system. The American system cares about everyone, including those with special interests and talents. Instead, China's system blindly wants everyone to be good with everything. Jack of all trades means expert of none. One might think China's system could allow someone to know a little about everything. However, everyone of us knows that we would simply study for the tests and forget all about it once the test is done in a class that we don't like. How many of us still remember anything about those classes we hate in school? It's waste of time and energy. And most importantly, it would not allow people with special talents and interests to thrive. I would imagine I would be a factory worker if I stayed in China since I would not be able to get into college. Instead, the American system allows me to thrive and I am now a successful scientist in cancer biology.
Last edited by vesicles; 09-16-2011 at 03:57 AM.

我认为我更适应这种教育制度。美国的制度关照每一个人，包括那些有特殊兴趣和才能的人。相反，中国的教育制度盲目要求每个人全面发展，结果样样通，样样松。你也许以为中国的模式能够让我们对所有东西都略知一二。但实际上，我们每一个人都清楚我们只是为了应付考试。只要那堂所有人都不喜欢的考试课一结束，所有东西都忘得一干二净了。我们中有多少人还记得在当年学校里那些令人憎恨的课程？白白浪费时间和精力罢了。还有最重要的，中国模式不允许有特殊兴趣、才能的人发展。我设想过我留在中国的话会成为一个工厂工人，因为我进不了大学。与之相反，美国模式让我成长，现在成了一个成功的研究癌症的生物学家。

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09-16-2011, 01:44 PM
#6 Red___Sword
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Vesicles, no any intent of bash to American education system, just a clarification:

The "know everything" part of Chinese education, ends at the graduation of high school, that's year 2 of high school. It is totally different the GRADUATION FROM HIGH SCHOOL, and the ENTRY TO UNIVERSITY. After a talent who scores full mark of science subjects and barely passes the art subjects at his high school graduation exam, he can choose to take the science OR art track in his future study, and forget the other.(Chinese, English, Math are compulsory for both track though a little different in study). At the end of year 3 of high school, every Chinese take a walk to hell's gate and go for NATIONAL COLLEGE ENTRANCE EXAMINATION 全国高等教育入学考试， “高考” for short, where for one, the math questions, could easily beat the crap out of year 2 college student in UK (google it...)

Vesicles，我没有贬低美国制度的意思，只想澄清一下：
在中国模式里，要求“通识”的阶段，在高中毕业前就结束了，确切说在高中的第二年。“高中毕业”与“升入大学”之间有根本区别。一个理科能拿满分的天才在磕磕碰碰的通过文科高中毕业考试之后，他就能选择未来是走理科，或者，文科路线，然后忘掉另一项(语文、英语、数学虽有所区别，但对文理来说都是必修)。高中的第三年，每个中国人都得去地狱里走一遭参加NCEE，即所谓“高考”。在那里，一道数学题能把英国的大二学生K出翔来（不信就去google…）

All I want to say, is that emphasising people need to good at something (vs. good at everything), still requires people have some basic understanding of certain level of "everything", otherwise PanAsian at post #26 (Edit: #4 of this thread) speaks the grim truth. (lable every piece of truth into "conspiracy theory" is one of the trick they used too often.)

我想强调的就是：一个人想要在某些方面（而非所有方面）有所专长，是需要以一定程度上的“全面了解”作基础的。如若不然， PanAsian在4楼所说的剧情就会真实上演。（给真相打上阴谋论的标签（以混淆是非），正是那些精英们用烂了的伎俩之一。）

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09-16-2011, 06:39 PM
#7 delft
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Originally Posted by vesicles
Chill, man. It is fact that most Americans are poor with geography. It is mostly because of the difference in education systems in China vs. the US. In China, all courses are required. So everyone has to take geography. However, most of the subjects in American schools are elective and don't have to be taken, except English, math, political science, American history and some kind of science. As you can imagine, geography is not the most exciting class and not many kids take it. Many Americans cannot even draw the general shape of their own state, let alone the location of another country. This is not to say anything about the quality of the education system in the States, only that it is different from that of China.
Does give high school political science insight into the question: how could politics in Washington DC become so dysfunctional? What else does it provide?

【引用】#3放轻松，伙计。大部分美国人地理很糟糕，这是事实…

给高中开的政治学课程使你洞悉了如下问题吗：花生屯的政治是如何变得机能紊乱的？它带来了哪些影响？

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09-17-2011, 04:30 AM
#8 FriedRiceNSpice
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
In China, there are lots of technology institutes and universities with very good science and engineering programs. They will admit students based on their scores in the relevant subjects, not overall scores. That's what I heard from my parents and their friends.

在中国，有许多拥有良好的科研/工程项目的技术学院和大学。他们认可学生在相关科目的成绩，而不看总成绩。这是我从我父母和他们的朋友那听来的。

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09-20-2011, 01:56 AM
#9 vesicles
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Originally Posted by FriedRiceNSpice
In China, there are lots of technology institutes and universities with very good science and engineering programs. They will admit students based on their scores in the relevant subjects, not overall scores. That's what I heard from my parents and their friends.
I don't think these schools are any good in terms of building your credentials. You may be able to find a job, but it's not going to get you into grad/med school or anything. And no one will care about those technology degrees, no matter where you are, China or the US.

【引用】 #8在中国，有许多拥有良好的科研/工程项目的技术学院和大学…

据我所知，这样的学校对于提升你的资历没有任何好处。你或许可以找一份工作，但没法帮你敲开研究生院、医学院或者别的什么的大门。也没有谁会看重这些技术学位，无论在哪里，中国还是美国。

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09-20-2011, 02:46 AM
#10 solarz
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Originally Posted by vesicles
To be honest, I actually like the American system. Why? When I was in China, my focus was heavily biased toward math and science. My dad always says if I stayed in China and finished schooling there, I would never be able to get in a good college. This is because China's system wants people to be good with everything. You will have to get a high total score for all the subjects to get into a good college. For me, the courses like Chinese, political science and geography would drag me down so bad and my total score would not be high enough to get in any good colleges. When I came to the State, however, I was able to choose those courses that I liked and thrive.

I think I fit much better in this kind of system. The American system cares about everyone, including those with special interests and talents. Instead, China's system blindly wants everyone to be good with everything. Jack of all trades means expert of none. One might think China's system could allow someone to know a little about everything. However, everyone of us knows that we would simply study for the tests and forget all about it once the test is done in a class that we don't like. How many of us still remember anything about those classes we hate in school? It's waste of time and energy. And most importantly, it would not allow people with special talents and interests to thrive. I would imagine I would be a factory worker if I stayed in China since I would not be able to get into college. Instead, the American system allows me to thrive and I am now a successful scientist in cancer biology.
When did you go to the US? I dare say that your schooling experience in China was instrumental in you doing well in the US. I remember that I never listened to a single math class from elementary school to secondary school. What I learned in grade 2 in China was enough to get me past grade 6 math in Canada, and what I learned in Chinese school every saturday was enough to keep me ahead of the class to the end of high school.

【引用】 #5坦率的说，我更喜欢美国的教育制度。为什么？还在中国的时候…

你什么时候去的美国？我敢说你在中国的求学经历对你在美国的良好表现是有帮助的。我记得我从小学*1到中学*2没听过哪怕一节数学课。我在中国2年级所学的数学足以让我在加拿大混过6年级，在中国时每个周六所学的东西足以让我在加拿大保持头几名的位置知道高中结束。

Family values and society also plays a big part. In China, competition is much fiercer, and typically a much greater emphasis is put on language and literature in general education than in North America. Chinese families also tend to push their children a lot more strictly on education than other American or Canadian families.

家庭价值观和社会同样起到了重要作用。在中国，竞争更为激烈，相比北美，中国在普通教育中通常更强调语言和文学。中国的家庭在推动孩子接受教育上也比美国和加拿大更为严厉。

【译注】：
一：*1小学*2中学的表达分别对应原文的elementary school 及 secondary school
引用牛津词典里的解释，elementary school：a school for children aged from 6 to 11,大致对应我们的小学阶段；secondary school：a school for children aged from 11 to 18,大致对应我们的初中+高中阶段。
二：前文里出现的middle school 及 high school 在英美所对应的阶段有所不同，但本文所出现的含义按国内通常理解即可。

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09-20-2011, 08:25 AM
#11 bladerunner
Location Xin Xi Lan【←地址碉堡了】
Re: DoD 2011 annual military report on china is out
Originally Posted by solarz

Family values and society also plays a big part. In China, competition is much fiercer, and typically a much greater emphasis is put on language and literature in general education than in North America. Chinese families also tend to push their children a lot more strictly on education than other American or Canadian families.
I recall you once saying that the differences was less marked when at uni. Or something like that.

【引用】家庭价值观和社会同样起到了重要作用…

我记得你曾经说过“在大学时，差异就不那么明显了”，或者这之类的话。

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09-20-2011, 10:35 AM
#12 CottageLV
Banned Idiot
Re: China's Education system compared to the USA
Education in all oriental cultures are kind of messed up. It is indeed true that oriental (South Korea, Japan and other Chinese influenced cultures) students can achieve insanely high scores on examinations, but in real life they can't get anything done. They are simply trained into exam machines. We can already see the after effects to this problem. There are tens of millions of university graduates each year in China, which is an astounding number to look at. However, there's also a huge shortage of skilled workers (academically educated), forcing companies to retrain those kids from scratch.

所有的东方文化搞起教育通常一团糟。确实，东方（包括南朝鲜、日本还有其他受中国文化影响的地区）的学生能够在考试中取得疯狂的高分，但在现实生活中他们一无所成。他们全然被训练成了考试机器。这样做的恶果已经凸显。中国每年有几千万大学毕业生，这是一个惊人的数字，但受过学术教育熟练技工的缺口仍然巨大，迫使用人单位从零开始重新培养这些孩子。

I personally experienced this first hand. I have seen a lot of students from China (including South Korea, Japan, etc) that are saints at doing exams. But when comes to laboratory sessions, a lot of them struggle. In real life, we need abilities similar to laboratory skills, not exam skills to innovate and progress.
So to put it a little bluntly, those countries are really wasting money and not educating the kids properly.

我本人就有亲身经历，我见过一大堆从中国（还有南朝鲜、日本、等等）来的拜考试教教徒，一旦到了实验课上，他们中的许多人就开始挣扎抓狂。在现实生活中，我们进行创新和进步所依赖的是实验的能力，而不是考试的能力。
说得更明白一点，这些国家是在浪费金钱，荒废了对这些孩子的教育。

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09-20-2011, 11:17 AM
#13 solarz
Re: China's Education system compared to the USA
Originally Posted by CottageLV
Education in all oriental cultures are kind of messed up. It is indeed true that oriental (South Korea, Japan and other Chinese influenced cultures) students can achieve insanely high scores on examinations, but in real life they can't get anything done. They are simply trained into exam machines. We can already see the after effects to this problem. There are tens of millions of university graduates each year in China, which is an astounding number to look at. However, there's also a huge shortage of skilled workers (academically educated), forcing companies to retrain those kids from scratch.
I personally experienced this first hand. I have seen a lot of students from China (including South Korea, Japan, etc) that are saints at doing exams. But when comes to laboratory sessions, a lot of them struggle. In real life, we need abilities similar to laboratory skills, not exam skills to innovate and progress.
So to put it a little bluntly, those countries are really wasting money and not educating the kids properly.
LOL, so explain why my dad's R&D department in Merck is almost exclusively Chinese?

【引用】#12所有的东方文化搞教育通常一团糟。确实，东方…

LOL，那你告诉我为什么默克集团里我父亲的研发部门里几乎全是中国人？

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09-20-2011, 11:51 AM
#14 plawolf
Re: China's Education system compared to the USA
@ Cottage
That is a silly position to take and fails to consider so many obvious factors.

One of the main reasons Oriental students do not thrive in the west is because of the massive cultural difference, and not education. When my father worked at a university in the UK, he was always able to get the best out of Chinese students, and those students tend to be far better than their western counterparts, not that there are many western counterparts that is.

It is folly to expect people brought up and taught in a completely different culture and manner to be able to take to the kind of jobs and roles that are designed for natives. It is as unreasonable to expect an Oriental person to get off a plane and fit right in in the west as it is for a westerner to do so in places like China, Japan or South Korea.

@ Cottage
你选择了一个愚蠢的切入点并且忽视了许多明显的事实。

东方的学生在西方表现不佳的一个最主要的原因，在于巨大的文化差异，与教育无关。我父亲在英国的大学里工作的时候，他总能得到中国学生里那些最好的，他们往往比西方的校友们优秀一大截。

期望在完全不同的文化风俗里成长和接受教育的人能够胜任那些为本地人设置的工作和角色，是愚蠢的。期待东方人一下飞机就“我已出舱，感觉良好”，和期望西方人一跑到中国/日本/南朝鲜就感觉不错一样，都是不切实际的。

Funnily enough, there is a new term that is fast becoming common in finance circles. FISHTAIL, which stands for Failed In Shang Hai Trying Again In London. These are the young hotheads who went over to China expecting to take China by the scruff of the neck and own the Chinese economic miracle. Needless to say, most of the people who went over with that attitude and mindset did not do so well, and have started to move back to London to try and get their old jobs back.

The main reason that western firms are investing so much to train local Chinese people to perform roles they would have sent ex-pats to do in years past is because they are realizing that it is easier and cheaper to train locals to do the job right than to teach westerners who already can do the job how to do it in Asia. And guess what, their businesses are benefiting from the change.

说来有趣，有一个新名词在经济危机中广为流传——“鱼尾”。意思是：“欲到上海浑水摸鱼捞金而不得，回到伦敦重新夹起尾巴做人”。这些头脑发热的年轻人跑去中国，幻想自己能统御这个国家，坐享中国奇迹般的经济成果。不用说，大多数抱有这种态度想法跑去中国的人徒心想而事不成，不得不回到伦敦试图重操旧业。

西方公司对对中国当地人进行职业培训投入巨大——而数年前，他们会将这些工作交给外海的国民——的主要原因是，他们发现培训当地人正确的去工作，比教会已经具备了工作能力的西方人同样的事情如何在亚洲运转，要更容易更经济。结果如何？他们的生意从这项改变中获益。

You are also in for a big surprise if you think western educated students are ready to hop into work straight out of campus with no need for further education. Even in highly specialized fields like law, firms still invest huge amounts of time and money to train their staff to do their work.

There are very few exceptions where what you learn at university will be useful for you in your working life outside of pure academia.

China's education system does have its flaws. The biggest that I can see is the poor transition between high school and university.

如果你以为西方的学生已经做好了准备，离开校园，不需要更进一步的学习，一踏入职场就能直接工作的话，等着你的只会是大大的惊讶。即使是像法律这样的高度专业对口的领域，公司仍然会花费大量的时间和金钱去培训他们的雇员如何去工作。

在大学里所学的东西在脱离了纯粹学术的工作生涯中仍然有用的，只是极少的例外。

中国的教育制度固然有缺陷。在我看来最大的问题就是在高中和大学教育之间缺乏过渡。

In high school, there is so much competition and pressure to get an amazing mark to get into a good uni that students are forced to work insanely hard, and teachers pretty much spoonfeed the students to make sure they get the best possible mark as their bonuses depend on the marks their students get.

But once you get into Uni, the lectures in China behave largely like their western counterparts, meaning there is no-one there to spoon feed the students or to jump on their backs to make sure they do all their homework.

For most students, the habits of doing so much work learnt up to high school keep them working hard. But for a significant minority, they just struggle to adapt and end up doing too little work and drop out.

在高中阶段，为了取得一个惊人的分数进入好大学，存在着巨大的竞争和压力。学生被迫疯狂苦学；教师使劲灌输以使学生能的尽可能高的分数，因为他们的奖金和学生的考分挂钩。

然而，一旦来到了大学里，中国的讲师们又和西方的同行们太相像了。这意味着再没有人会一勺一勺的喂他们了，也再没有人会惹人心烦的催促他们做完作业了。

对大多数学生来说，在高中时养成的做大量功课的习惯促使他们继续努力。但是对于一小部分人，他们挣扎着适应，结果却因功课做太少了以致退学。

That is far from an uniquely oriental problem, as many high-flyers in western countries who achieve that because of parental pressure also 'rebel' like that when they are at uni, and you can usually tell which students are there only because it is what their parents decided, and they tend to not do so great unfortunately.

The broad nature and lack of specialization in Chinese primary and secondary education is less clear-cut. Choice is a double edged sword, and can be extremely harmful if the person making the choice does so for the wrong reasons. Given the choice, I don't think any children would want to brush their teeth. Would you ever allow your child to take that choice?

这绝不仅仅是东方独有的问题，西方很多在父母的压力下才小有所成心怀野望的年轻人，一旦到了大学同样会“叛逆”。你通常很容易就可以分辨出，哪些学生仅仅是因为听从父母的决定才来到大学的，不幸的，他们往往表现不佳。

博而不精的问题，在中国的小学和中学教育中不那么明显。选择，是一把双刃剑，当一个选择基于错误的原因而被做出时，它就能带来极大的伤害。如果有的选，我相信没有孩子会刷牙。但你会让你的孩子如此选择吗？

I have seen many of my old high school friends from the UK under-achieve badly and end up in dead-end no-hope jobs that they will probably keep for the rest of their lives, and these were smart, capable kids who are in this position today because they chose their subjects at high-school not based on what the good universities and courses wanted, but on which are the easiest subjects and the timetable the classes are scheduled. So they can have an early finish or late start on certain days.

That is the kind of stupid decisions children make, that is why we do not allow children to enter into legally binding contracts or hold them to the same standards of culpability if they commit a crime. Why should be intrust their futures to them at such a tender age, before they really know what they want or how these choices would affect them in the long-term?

我目睹了许多我的英国高中朋友不那么成功的例子，干着了无生气看不到希望的工作也许直到终老。这些可都曾经是聪颖有才华的孩子啊，变成今天这个样子，就因为在高中时他们选课不考虑那些好大学好专业所要求的是什么，而只看那些课程是不是最容易的，会不会挤占自己的时间表，好让他们在一些特定的日期里可以迟到早退。

这就是孩子会做出的不理智选择，也是我们在孩子犯罪时不会让他们接受（同成年人一样的）法律约束和责罚标准的原因。既然如此，我们又为什么要在他们如此稚嫩，尚不明白自己真正想要的是什么，也不明了所做的选择会有怎么深远影响的时候，把他们的未来托付到他们自己手上呢？

Another thing I will say in favor of a broad approach is, how will you know what you really like if you have not tried different things out?

In the west, you are seeing fewer and fewer students taking up 'mathy' subjects and careers, and that is mainly down to choice. We all know that it is hard work learning your times tables and periodic tables, that it is no fun doing endless sums to hone your skills, and that os why kids are not choosing them. But you will not experience the true job of subjects like math or science until you have mastered the basics and move on to the more interesting aspects.

If you ask the world's great musicians, engineers and academics whether they loved the subject they are doing now when they were children, and 9 times out of 10, they would not only say they didn't like it, but that they hated it. Until that one magical moment when the scales lifted from their eyes and changed their lives forever.

我要讲的另外一件事，用来支持拓宽（知识）接触面，那就是：如果你不尝试不同的事物，你怎么知道你会喜欢上什么呢？

在西方，你会发现越来越少的学生从事数学相关的专业和职业生涯，这都归咎于“选择”。我们都知道，对着时间表来安排学习是件苦差事，做着无穷无尽的计算来磨练自己的技巧毫无乐趣可言，这就是学生们不选择它们的原因。但假如你不能精通基础知识并深入到更为生动的领域，你也就无从领略数学/科学这类学科的真正奥义。

世界上那些最伟大的音乐家、工程师、学者，如果你回到他们小时候去问他们是否喜欢现在从事的工作，十之八九，他们会告诉你岂止是不喜欢，根本就是深恶痛绝。直到那个奇迹般的时刻来临，他们有所顿悟，永远地改变了他们的生活。

I may not remember everything I learnt in all those different classes in middle school in China today, but they did open my eyes to what is out their, and for the subjects that did truly interest me, those early foundations have proved invaluable.

There is much to be admired about how western secondary education prepares a student for university life and helps them to develop independently and confidently (interestingly enough, while American students rarely rank top in international competitions, they always rank top when asked how well they felt they did, some might laugh, but confidence and self-believe is an extremely powerful and useful trait, and all too many oriental students seem to be too lacking in that department). However, there is something terribly amiss with the American education system.

If you have not seen 'Waiting for Superman', then I strongly urge you to see it. It is an extremely well made documentary about the modern American education system. What impressed me most about the film is that there does not seem to be any political motive, any axe to grind by the makers. They only cared about finding out what is wrong with America's education system and how to fix it. It is a very eye-opening, powerful and genuine story, and it is hard not to be moved by it.

如今，我可能记不清我在中国上初中时所学的全部东西，但他们实实在在的打开了我的眼界，使我受益匪浅，那些早期打下的基础日后被证明是无价的。

西方的中学教育在为学生升入大学做准备和培养他们的独立性、自信心方面方面是非常令人钦佩的（有趣的是，虽然美国学生罕有在国际竞赛中名列前茅，但当你询问他们觉得做得如何时，他们总把自己排第一。一些人可能会笑，但自信的确是一种极度强大有用的品质，太多的东方学生看起来过于缺乏这种特质了）。然而，美国的教育制度中存在巨大的缺陷。

如果你还没看过《等待超人》，我强烈建议你去看一看。这是一部制作精良的关于美国现代教育制度的纪录片。给我留下最深刻印象是影片看不出含有任何政治动因，导演也没有夹售私货【译注have an axe to grind，指怀有私心的】。他们单纯地专注于找出美国教育制度中错误的地方以及如何修正。这是一部令人大开眼界的强大的充满才华的影片，你很难不被它所打动。

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09-20-2011, 12:04 PM
#15 kwaigonegin
Re: China's Education system compared to the USA
Originally Posted by CottageLV
Education in all oriental cultures are kind of messed up. It is indeed true that oriental (South Korea, Japan and other Chinese influenced cultures) students can achieve insanely high scores on examinations, but in real life they can't get anything done. They are simply trained into exam machines. We can already see the after effects to this problem. There are tens of millions of university graduates each year in China, which is an astounding number to look at. However, there's also a huge shortage of skilled workers (academically educated), forcing companies to retrain those kids from scratch.
I personally experienced this first hand. I have seen a lot of students from China (including South Korea, Japan, etc) that are saints at doing exams. But when comes to laboratory sessions, a lot of them struggle. In real life, we need abilities similar to laboratory skills, not exam skills to innovate and progress.
So to put it a little bluntly, those countries are really wasting money and not educating the kids properly.

How do you explain Asian American students then? or ethnic chinese/japanese/korean students in any country for that matter...they do extremely well academically as well but obviously having grown up and gone to school here like anyone else would also have the benefit of practicality.
If your theory is true than asian american students wouldn't stand out academically compared to others. In fact they would probably lack behind whites since generally speaking minority students fair worse than their white counterparts in academics but that isn't the case. I think most would also argue when you say Japanese/Japan lack innovation and progress.
If you ask me I think it has more to do with family prioritization than a particular country's educational system. Asian families tend to focus more on their kids' education regardless of what country they grow up in.
BTW I think your post in which you painted with a very broad brush probably just offended half of our esteem SDF friends here

【引用】#12 所有的东方文化搞起教育通常一团糟。确实，东方…

那些亚裔的美国学生你该怎么说？或者任何国家里中国/日本/南朝鲜血统的学生？他们像当地人一样成长、上学、享受现实的便利，但在学术上的表现得（与东方人）同样优秀。如果你的理论正确，那么亚裔美国学生就不应该显得如此超群。事实上，由于天平一般会向学院里的白人学生倾斜，亚裔学生更应该站在白人身后才对，但这不是事实。我想，你关于“日本/日本人缺乏创新和进步”的观点可能最具争议。

如果你问我，我认为家庭因素比特定国家的教育制度影响更大。亚洲家庭往往趋向于在孩子的教育上倾注更多，无论他们在那个国家里生活。

外国网民：在闲聊中思辨，中美教育制度的比较