（接上文）一个印度人的自述：为您还原一个自恋的印度。

Inside a country: India
Linschoten

英国

Since we now have quite a few active Indian members, and there has been much discussion of Indian issues recently, I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread on India in our 'inside a country' series. For the general intention, I will repeat what was said at the beginning of a former thread in the series: an invitation to Indian members to provide their inside knowledge about the peculiarities and culture of India, and the character of its people and what it is like to live there, and the problems and good points in modern developments there. Those who have visited the country may also wish to offer their impressions. As in the similar threads, the aim is, above all, to provide personal impressions about life in the country without getting involved in disputes about controversial issues of politics etc., which can easily derail a thread of this kind.

鉴于如今论坛里的印度用户已经不少，而有关印度的问题最近也比较火，我认为是时候在我们的《了解各国》系列里开辟印度篇了。为了方便大众，我在这里再强调一遍：这个帖子的目的在于诚邀那些对印度有着切身了解的印度网友们参与讨论，通过他们的第一手资料，向读者们展示印度的文化、特性与民族性，让人们了解当地切实的生活状况和印度发展中的弊端和闪光点。我们也期待那些去过印度的网友们提供宝贵的心得体会。正如上一个系列一样，帖子将尽可能围绕大家对这个国家的个人感受，尽量不涉及政治纠纷和争议类话题，因为这种话题太容易跑题，最后演变成互相嘴炮了......

以下是评论

Sargon of Akkad
英国
Do all Indians know which caste they are born into?

是不是所有印度人都知道自己出身于哪个种姓？

Jinit
印度
Yes. Not only the caste but most of the time they even know the subcaste they are born into. Its easy to predict the caste of the person by his/her surname.

（回楼上）
是的，不仅是种姓，大多数时候他们甚至能知道他们的亚种姓。通过他/她的姓氏就能很容易猜到他们的种姓。

The Imperial
印度
Yep. Most rural Indians know their caste. But sometimes, young urban-Indians, due to the environment they are brought up in, are shielded from the caste system.
Me, personally didn't know about caste until it was mentioned in the Social Studies subject in my high school. My parents revealed our caste to me only after an year of nagging. But after growing up, caste is something which simply doesn't disappear if we close our eyes and pretend it's not there(as caste system becomes relevant when I am around orthodox/conservative people).
But the story of caste system in rural India might be totally different
It's easy to predict an Indian's whole family background just by his name.

（回楼上上）
是的，大多数印度乡下人都知道他们的种姓，但有时候某些城里的印度年轻人由于成长环境的因素不了解种姓制度。
我个人直到高中上社会课程时才了解种姓制度，我的父母只在一年的唠叨之后才告诉我所属的种姓，长大后才发现种姓制度并不会因为我们闭上眼睛假装看不见而消失（我身边的正统人士/守旧派让我意识到种姓制度的存在）。
但在印度乡下就完全不一样。
知道印度人的名字，你就能很容易的猜到他的家庭背景

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：chen_lt------------

Sargon of Akkad
英国
That's very interesting, could you give some examples of surnames that are tied to castes?

那真是太有趣了，你能举些关于哪些姓氏和种姓相关联的例子吗？

rvsakhadeo
印度
Many names were simply indicative of professions.
Examples :- Sutar ( Carpenter )
Lohar ( Ironmonger )
Kumhar ( Potter )
Chamar ( Fabricator of Leather goods )
Sonar ( Goldsmith )
The spellings of the above surnames are as in Hindi.

许多名字能很容易地标示出他的职业
比如：
Sutar ( 木匠)
Lohar (五金店主)
Kumhar ( 制陶工人 )
Chamar ( 皮货商 )
Sonar ( 金匠)
以上这些姓氏都是用印地语拼写的

manas teja
印度
Mostly the caste names and family surnames are first or second order derivatives of the people's ancestors' occupation , ! [ sorry if i sound too mathematical ]
I would share example of my surname .
My surname is 'Katakam' which derives from the word 'khetaka' of prakrit that means 'Capital city ' during Satavahanas .
Or in some forms of Telugu , Katakam also represents a 'military camp' .
So We could conclude that these people are the ones who are associated to the capital cities of ancient kingdoms either with their occupation or with something else.
Coming to my caste name , it is 'Munnuru KApu ' , a subcaste of KApus and it is a compound of two words , MUNNURU [ means Three Hundred ] and KAPU [ the people who guard ] .
There's a story behind this . It is said that for guarding their palace , the Kakatiya kings recruited these people from the Sea coast . So three hundred families of palace guards moved onto my native place to stay there .
And since these families were Guards [ Kapus] and since three hundred of them moved [ Munnuru ] , so the name Munnuru Kapu .
So from the above history , we can infer that my ancestors used to be Palace guards and Soldiers .
And so my surname indicates the place from where my ancestors emerged from [ in this case , it was some ancient capital city , because we got many capitals in my area ] and the caste name represents the occupation .
This is how [ almost , for most of the cases ] the castes and the surnames work .
Hope this helps

绝大多数种姓和家族姓氏都是人们祖先职业的一级派生物或者二级派生物
以我的姓氏为例来和大家分享一下
我的姓氏为“Katakam”源自于古印度语的“khetaka”，意思为百乘王朝时期的都城，在泰卢固语（译注：印度东部德拉维拉语言）里， Katakam也有“军营”的意思
这样我们就能推断出这些人是古代王国都城中的一员，以及他们的工作及其他相关的一些事。

再来谈谈我的种姓“Munnuru KApu”，这是KApu的亚种姓，是两个词的组合MUNNURU [代表三百 ] 和KAPU [担任守卫]。
在这还有个故事。话说卡卡提亚国王们为了保卫自己的宫殿，所以从海岸附近征召民众，有三百个家族成为王宫警卫迁出原籍驻守此处。
自从这些家族成为了警卫[ Kapus]并有三百人发生了迁徙[Munnuru]，所以取名为Munnuru Kapu。

基于以上历史，我们能推断出我的祖先曾经是王宫警卫和战士，而且我的姓氏指示了我的祖先出自何处[在这个例子中，可以看出是某个古代都城，因为在我那个地区有许多都城]，因此种姓还代表了职业。
这就是种姓和姓氏[绝大多数情况下] 所代表的含义。
希望这对你有所帮助。

（译注：百乘王朝Satavahanas （音译为娑多婆诃王朝）是古印度南方的一个王国其创建者为案达罗人中的百乘族人须慕迦，于公元前230年从孔雀王朝独立出来，公元220年﹐王国正式瓦解。
卡卡提亚王朝Kakatiya是公元1083年至1323年统治现今印度安得拉邦大部分的泰卢固人王朝，王朝信奉湿婆教）

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：chen_lt------------

Linschoten
英国
Most interesting, thank you. Are there a large number of different castes and subcastes?

太有意思了，谢谢你。那么不同的种姓和亚种姓的数量是不是很庞大啊！

manas teja
印度
happy to know it has interested you ..
though simply people say there are 4 castes viz Brahmins , kshatriyas , vyshyas and Sudras , it is really an ambiguous and humongous task to split castes.
And yes , there are multitude of subcastes and sub subcastes in the caste system .
Due to the diversification of the population and inccrease in the types of occupations and due to ever increasing number of foreign tribes that had to be fit into the system , the caste system diversified itself . Time to time , new castes are always seen entering the realm of the system.

得知满足了你的兴趣很是高兴...
虽然简单来说人们分为婆罗门，刹帝利，吠舍和首陀罗，但要细分种姓那可是麻烦而又庞杂的工作
是的，在种姓制度中有众多的亚种姓和亚亚种姓
由于人口的多样化和职业种类的扩大化，以及不断增加的外来族群融入进来，种姓制度自身也变得多样化，不时的可以看到新的种姓在为种姓制度添砖加瓦。

rvsakhadeo
印度
There are literally hundreds of castes and subcastes.
As an example, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and Gujarat are 4 states where you may find Marathi speaking Brahmins, who are basically from Maharashtra but have spread into other non-Marathi speaking states.
Now among Maharashtrian Brahmins you will find 4 principal subcastes.
i ) Deshastha Brahmins-- mainly resident in western Maharashtra, Vidarbha, Marathwada areas. Tend to be bit dark in complexion, varying from Wheaten to Brown, rough spoken. Some surnames are common among all Brahmins but some typically Deshastha. Usually doing the work of village registrar of Land records and govt. papers and hence often with a surname Kulkarni, meaning keeper ( of records) of tenants. Kul meaning a land user or tenant. These Brahmins often used to hold large land holdings themselves but not any longer after the Tenancy Act was enacted in the 1950s.
ii ) Chitpawan Brahmins--Resident mainly in the coastal strip near Arabian Sea west of the Sahyadri Mountains, now spread everywhere. Fair complexion and many a times with blue eyes suggesting non- Indian origin-- some say Greek.
Language soft. Hairsplitting and cynical. Usually in Legal and Engineering professions.
iii) Karhade Brahmins--Said to be originally from Karad , a small town in western Maharashtra.
iv ) Deorukhe Brahmins-- Said to be originally from the town of Devrukh in the western coastal strip.

不夸张的讲有数以百计的种姓和亚种姓。
举个例子，在Maharashtra, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh 和Gujarat这四个邦你可以发现有主要来自马哈拉施特拉邦说马拉地语的婆罗门，但他们已经遍布到其他非马拉地语的邦去了
如今马哈拉施特拉邦婆罗门，你可以看到大致4种最主要的亚种姓

1）Deshastha婆罗门--主要聚居于西Maharashtra, Vidarbha, Marathwada地区。肤色有那么点深，呈现出小麦般的棕色，说起话来粗声粗气的，有些姓是常见的婆罗门（亚种姓）但有一些则是典型的Deshastha（亚种姓）。他们通常从事的村庄的土地登记和政府文员工作，因此姓里常有个Kulkarni，就是佃农管理员（或书记员）的意思。其中Kul代表土地使用者或佃农。这类婆罗门常常靠掌管这大片土地来维持自己的身家，不过随着1950年租赁法的颁布他们的日子就到头了。

2）Chitpawan婆罗门--主要聚居在靠近阿拉伯海西侧Sahyadri山脉沿海地区，不过现在遍布各地了。皮肤白皙很多还有着蓝眼睛，看起来不像印度本地人，有些人说他们像希腊人。
说起话来比较轻柔，为人拘泥礼节且多疑。通常从事司法和土木工程等职业。

3） Karhade 婆罗门--据说原本来自Karad地区，是个马哈拉施特拉邦西部的一个小镇

4） Deorukhe 婆罗门--如名所示是西部沿海Devrukh的一个镇上的本地人。

-------------译者：GENRICO-审核者：chen_lt------------

Linschoten
英国
Thank you, this is fascinating. Here in England, 'placing' people is something of a national pastime, but in India the ramifications seem to be infinitely more complicated. It would also seem to be more difficult to escape from a given background (if a person wanted), at least outside the big cities. A further reflection is that an enormous of history is caught up in the caste system.

多谢，这挺有意思。在我们英国，把人分为三六九等不过是某种国民性的消遣（译者注：此处national pastime意义不甚明朗，或译为陈年往事）。然而在印度，它的衍生物似乎要复杂得多。如果某人想要脱离他与生俱来的背景似乎也要困难得多，至少在大城市以外的地方要这样做很难。进一步反思，你会发现种姓制度像条毒蛇纠缠着印度宏大的历史。

Naomasa298
英国
Is it considered rude to ask someone's caste?

询问别人的种姓是无礼的举动吗？

rvsakhadeo
印度
And if someone asks a person belonging to a backward caste/ backward tribe, what is his caste/tribe, even with the lightest of a sneering inflexion , the enquirer is liable to be booked as per provisions of the " Atrocities against Harijans " Act.
Nobody asks anybody's caste and what is more important nobody cares .

如果某人向一个来自低种姓/部族的人询问他/她的种姓/部族。即使询问者完全没有轻蔑之意，他的举动也会被视为对贱民的侮辱。
这里没人询问别人的种姓，更重要的是没人在乎。

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：chen_lt------------

The Imperial
印度
Most of the time, the older people(the ones who are most likely to be conservative and traditional) can deduce someone's caste by interacting a little with them(like knowing and analyzing the person's full name, native place, accent, dressing style and language). So, most of the time people don't ask each other's caste in casual situations. But when they do ask, we can be pretty sure that the one who asks is only asking the question to mock the other person(because the questioner already knows the caste, and is trying to be derogatory). But the question can be expected in certain situations, and in those situations it doesn't constitute rudeness.
Most younger people, fortunately, do not care about caste.
But this again is entirely different in the rural areas.

绝大多数时候，那些上了年纪的人（那些人多数是保守派和传统派）会在交流的时候对别人的种姓进行推断（比如去了解分析人家的全名，祖籍，着装风格和语言）。其实绝大多数非正式场合下人们不会去相互打听种姓，但要是有人问了，我们能肯定那个问的人只是为嘲讽其他人而问的（因为早都知道种姓的问题再问就是为了去贬损别人）。
但如果在可预期的场合下问了，并不构成粗鲁无礼。
好在大多数年轻人并不关心种姓。
不过在农村地区那就完全不一样了。

rvsakhadeo 印度
Each Brahmin subcaste in Maharashtra has been subdivided into several dozen " Gotras " or branches based on the Ancient Originator of the particular family. For example, my surname is Sakhadeo and this surname belongs to a " Gotra " called " Vatsa Gotra ". In other words the Sakhadeo family has been generated in the ancient past by a Rishi ( Sage ) called Vatsa. There will be other families with different surnames under the Vatsa Gotra. But all of them have the common originator Vatsa. Marriages are PROHIBITED WITHIN FAMILIES BELONGING TO THE SAME GOTRA. This could be an early effort to avoid intermarriages and subsequent problems.
Lists of family names and their respective Gotras for the 4 principal subdivisions of Maharashtrian Brahmins is made available every year in the Marathi Panchang or Almanac issued every year. One such almanac also gives the Gotras of the Maharashtrian Kshatriyas ( the Warrior caste ) also.
Many Chitpawan Brahmins have light eyes. Colour varying from Ice Blue, to Green , to Grey. My eyes are brown so were my the eyes of my parents. Dark eyes are also very common. In other Brahmins, also a few persons are light eyed but not many. In other castes, mostly dark eyes or brown eyes prevail.
But eyes of my maternal grandfather were gray, his sister's i.e my grand-aunt's eyes were gray. My Paternal grandmother's eyes were gray. Only one of my 5 uncles was gray eyed.
In India, the places of Pilgrimage,like Nashik, Varanasi ( aka Benares ), Haridwar, Prayag ( aka Allahabad ), the Brahmins conducting the religious ceremonies have lists of people belonging to various castes and various Gotras among the castes, who visited the cities of the pilgrimage in the past. You give your surname,caste and gotra and amazingly enough, the Brahmin will be able to inform you when /if any of your ancestors visited the pilgrimage city in the past. He will, then, note down your name and your forefathers' names till he connects up with the data in his ancient scrolls.

每个马哈拉施特拉邦婆罗门的亚种姓被细分为各种“Gotras”或者以古代族姓的始祖为基础细分。
举例说明，我的姓氏是Sakhadeo，这个姓归属于一个叫做“Vatsa Gotra”的“Gotra”的亚种姓。换句话说Sakhadeo家族源于一个叫做Vatsa的古代印度教哲人（相当于英语的姓氏Sage）。还有其他家族在Vatsa Gotra亚种姓下有着不同的姓氏，但是所有这些家族都有共同的始祖——Vatsa。
GOTRA姓氏下的各个家族禁止通婚。这就尽早避免了近亲结婚和后面带来的种种问题。

马哈拉施特拉邦婆罗门的4个最重要的分支的各个家族名字和他们各自Gotra亚种姓的名单每年都会制成马拉地语星座历或年历发行。同样马哈拉施特拉邦的刹帝利（武士种姓）姓Gotras的亚种姓也会做这样一个年历。

很多Chitpawan婆罗门有双亮色的眼睛，眼睛颜色有冰蓝，绿色和灰色。我的眼睛遗传自我父母是棕色的。深色的眼睛非常普遍。其他婆罗门有一些也有亮色眼睛但不多。其他种姓绝大多数都是暗色或棕色眼睛。但是外祖父的眼睛是灰色的，他姐姐也就是我姨奶奶的眼睛也是灰色的。我祖母的眼睛是灰色，我5个叔叔中只有一个叔叔的眼睛是灰色的。

在印度教圣地，比如Nashik，瓦拉纳西（又名贝拿勒斯），Haridwar，Prayag ( 又名Allahabad )，由婆罗门执掌（朝圣）法事，他们有人们属于哪个种姓和种姓里的不同的Gotras过去谁访问过圣地的名单。你只要告知你的姓氏、种姓、种姓中的Gotras，令人惊奇的是，那些婆罗门能够告诉你，过去何时或你的哪位祖先访问过圣地。然后他会记下你的名字和你祖先的名字一起登在他那古老的卷轴上面。

-------------译者：搅屎棍-审核者：chen_lt------------

Linschoten
英国
That is indeed amazing, and rather wonderful too; I like that sort of historical continuity.

这的确令人惊异和惊叹，我喜欢类似这种的历史传承性.

rvsakhadeo
印度
The tradition of memorising the Vedas , in absence of the knowledge of writing, is well known. The various families of Brahmins took up the task of memorising by rote various parts of the 4 vedas. It was an immense task. Rigveda has 10552 Richas or Stanzas, the Yajurveda has 19290 Richas, the Samaveda has 1975 Richas,the Atharvaveda has 5987 Richas. So schools to correctly pronounce the various stanzas of each smaller part of the 4 Vedas were formed.
Eventually certain castes of Brahmins were known by the part of the Veda that they had memorised including the way they chanted that part , as, after all , slight variations in pronunciations could cause problems in identifying the stanza.
Even, after writing was discovered, the tradition of oral retention of these vast books has continued till date. Luckily, All the 4 vedas exist in print and have been translated in most Indian languages and have been well studied.

在写作这种方式还没出现之前，记忆《吠陀经》的传统就已经众所周知了。婆罗门各个家族共同担负起背诵4本《吠陀经》的任务。这是个艰巨的任务。梨俱吠陀有10552节诗。耶柔吠陀有19290节，娑摩吠陀有1975节，阿闼婆吠陀有5987节。所以后来才成立了专门教授如何正确背诵这些诗节的学校。
最终，有一些婆罗门的种姓因为能够正确的背诵《吠陀经》里面部分的章节而出名，因为要正确的背诵这些章节是很难的，发音上只要存在一点点的偏差人们就不知道你背诵的是哪一部分。
甚至在文字出现之后，口述记忆的传统仍然存在，直到出现一本巨作。幸运的是4吠陀幸存下来并翻译成许多种印度当地语言出版而且内容更丰富了。

问了下翻译，貌似是因为评论过多，才分割成3次发表的。。。

【龙腾】印度人自述：还原一个真实的印度(下）