【接印度人自述：还原一个真实的印度】

Inside a country: India

Linschoten

英国

Since we now have quite a few active Indian members, and there has been much discussion of Indian issues recently, I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread on India in our 'inside a country' series. For the general intention, I will repeat what was said at the beginning of a former thread in the series: an invitation to Indian members to provide their inside knowledge about the peculiarities and culture of India, and the character of its people and what it is like to live there, and the problems and good points in modern developments there. Those who have visited the country may also wish to offer their impressions. As in the similar threads, the aim is, above all, to provide personal impressions about life in the country without getting involved in disputes about controversial issues of politics etc., which can easily derail a thread of this kind.

鉴于如今论坛里的印度用户已经不少，而有关印度的问题最近也比较火，我认为是时候在我们的《了解各国》系列里开辟印度篇了。为了方便大众，我在这里再强调一遍：这个帖子的目的在于诚邀那些对印度有着切身了解的印度网友们参与讨论，通过他们的第一手资料，向读者们展示印度的文化、特性与民族性，让人们了解当地切实的生活状况和印度发展中的弊端和闪光点。我们也期待那些去过印度的网友们提供宝贵的心得体会。正如上一个系列一样，帖子将尽可能围绕大家对这个国家的个人感受，尽量不涉及政治纠纷和争议类话题，因为这种话题太容易跑题，最后演变成互相嘴炮了......

以下是评论

Emperor Trajan
美国
I am not Indian but I have a friend who is from the Punjab part of India. My friend is not on this site but I guess I will share what I know about the Punjab area of India. Sikhism is the most common religion in Punjab. In Punjab Hindi is a second language and English being a third language. Hindi is offered at schools as a second language. In his villiage there is only one Musilum family. He lived 3 hours near the boarder of India and Pakistan. He says boarder wars can last up to 2-3 hours. A lot of the people who live in Punjab Pakistan are also Sikhism. In Sikhism the biggest temple is called the
Harimandir_Sahib
（原文附链接：http://www.historum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHarimandir_Sahib）
or the Golden Temple. Punjab is wanted by both India and Pakistan. That is all I know about Punjab

我不是一個印度人，但我有一個來自印度旁遮普邦的朋友。我的朋友沒有上這個網站，但我想我會分享一下我所瞭解的印度旁遮普邦地區的情況。在那裡錫克教是最普遍的宗教，印地文作為第二語言而英語是第三語言。在學校印地文也被做為第二語言提供。在他（作者的朋友）的村子里只有一戶穆斯林家庭，他（作者朋友）在印度語巴基斯坦邊境上待過3個小時，他（作者朋友）說邊境戰爭一般可以持續2-3小時。很多住在旁遮普邦的巴基斯坦人也是錫克教的信徒。在錫克教中最大寺廟被稱作Harimandir_Sahib或者the Golden Temple（金廟）。印度和巴基斯坦都很看重旁遮普邦這個地方。這就是我對旁遮普邦全部的瞭解。

-------------译者：zjykn-审核者：chen_lt------------

Jinit
印度
Late 80s and 90s remind me of another video, that was quite famous at that time. and the Indians who lived in that era must be aware of the value of that ad.

Mile Sur Mera Tumhara [High Quality] - YouTube
（附了个youtube链接）
The advertisement was made by Govt. of India to spread the message of university in diversity which is central to the Indian culture. The same message was sang in 14 official different languages of India. Althaugh surprisingly both Sanskrit and English are missing from that list!!! Also most of the people in the ad were & are prominant celebrities in many fields.

八十年代末和就是年代初让我想起了另一个视频，这个视频当时很出名。在那个年代生活过的印度人一定能记起来那个广告。
这个广告是印度政府部门制作的，目的是为了告诉人们大学多样性是印度文化的中心部分。这一相同的信息用14种不同的印度官方语言唱出来，虽然令人吃惊的是梵文和英语都不在里面！！！而且大部分在广告里面的人是许多领域里的名人。

rvsakhadeo
印度
The meaning of these Hindi words is plain and yet touches the heart ! At least it touched the hearts of millions of Indians when this song was being played on the National TV channel and Cinema Theatres. We are quite simple folk you know and easily moved to tears.
OK, the meaning is:- " (When ) each of our Individual notes will tune into the other, we will have a Harmony ! "

这些印地语的句子的意思很平实但却触动人心！至少这首歌在国家电视台和电影院播放的时候能触动上百万的印度人。我们是很平常的人你知道，而且很容易被感动到落泪。
好了，这个的意思是：“（当）我们每一个人的曲调都一致的时候，我们就能获得和谐！”

-------------译者：zjykn-审核者：chen_lt------------

Rosi
印度（对前面意大利ID关于种姓制度是否存在的提问）
It's still alive, though by no means as rampant as it used to be; old attitudes die hard, after all. Most people wouldn't want their daughters to marry into lower castes, they couldn't bear the thought of it. In rural India there is a lot of open contempt for people from lower castes, in urban India not so much. You could still be refused a flat or a tenement in a society of upper caste people though. Some people still don't let the sweepers or cleaners into their house or let them sit on the sofa, insisting they sit on the floor. They would also keep a separate glass of water for them, and not mix that glass with anything they might drink from themselves.
Overall, I think the best person to answer this question would be somebody from a lower caste.

这依旧存在，虽然不再像以往那样猖獗；老旧的思想难以断气。大部分的人都不想让他们的女儿嫁给低种姓的人，他们甚至不能忍受这样的想法。在印度的农村地区有很多的对低种姓人群的公开歧视，在印度的城市里则没那么多。虽然你依然有可能在高种姓社区租不到房子住。有些人始终不肯让清洁工进入他们的房子或者让他们坐在沙发上，坚持让他们坐在地板上。他们也会准备一些单独的水杯给他们，而且这些水杯绝对不会和他们自己的杯具混在一起。
总之，我觉得让低种姓的人来回答这个问题是最适合的。

rvsakhadeo
印度
I protest against the sweeping statements being made here by this poster, who is misinformed and in addition appears prejudiced.
Yes, I am a Brahmin by caste, but not since my earliest memories I recall a single experience of any differential treatment to any of the so called lower castes by anyone from our family or our neighbours and that will be 1951 when I was 5 years old. Both my paternal relations and maternal relations did not bother what caste anybody belonged. Nor my friends. In fact, many of my close friends were belonging to the so called lower castes and were the first generation Graduate Engineers/ Medical Doctors belonging to their caste and that will be about 1968/1969. We used to go to their homes and they to our homes and used to play, eat, banter together-- no differentiation among friends at all.I and my circle of friends,plus the circle of my relatives extended across both rural and urban India. Thousands of persons may be included in this statistical " Universe " as the technical word is. How is that I don't recall a single incident of differentiation on account of caste ?
The casteism in Indian Hindu Society is rapidly on the retreat and although it is still there in mainly some rural pockets of a few underdeveloped states, it is on its death bed. I find it sardonic that whenever I/ any Indian tries to point out our achievements in various area, the question of casteism is thrown at us !
But Rosi wants some " Lower Caste " Hindu to reply to this query ! So I do not want to pick up any issue with her any more.

我不赞同这个网友笼统的观点，他不仅在误导大家，而且还有偏见。
对，我是一个婆罗门，可是即使在我的最早的记忆里我也找不到任何我们家的人或我的邻居对低种姓人群的任何歧视行为，而我最早的记忆可以追溯带1951年，那时我才5岁。我父亲和母亲的家庭都不在乎别人所属的种姓。我的朋友也不在乎。实际上，我很多朋友就是低种姓的人，而他们也是他们那个种姓的第一代工程师，医师，而那时大概是1968、1969年。我们经常去他们家里而他们也经常来我们家里吃喝玩乐，在朋友之间完全没有任何隔阂。我和我的朋友圈子，加上我的亲戚圈子跨越了印度的乡村和城市地区。上千人都被包括进了这个统计学意义上的“总体”这个词里。为什么我对那些因为种姓而区别对待的事情一点印象都没有呢？
种姓制度在印度的印度教社会里正在快速消失虽然它依旧在农村和不发达的地方存在，但它已经躺在他的病床上了。我发现嘲讽的事是无论什么时候我或者任何印度人尝试指出印度在各个领域的成就的时候，种姓问题就会丢给我们！
不过Rosi希望一些“低种姓”印度人来回答这个问题！所以我不想再和她讨论任何问题了。

-------------译者：废土世界-审核者：chen_lt------------

Rosi
印度
I'm not making any sweeping statements; I'm neither misinformed nor prejudiced. If you don't like what I say put me on 'ignore'. Or just don't address me.
You know nothing about me and I'm entitled to my views as much as anybody else here. If you accuse me of prejudice again, or say anything disrespectful about me personally, I'm going to have to report you to the moderators.

我没有做出任何笼统的陈诉;我既没有误传也没有怀有偏见。如果你不喜欢我所说的请“忽视”我。或者干脆不要联系我。
你对我一无所知而且我几乎比这儿的任何人都有资格谈论我的观点。如果你不断的指责我抱有偏见，或者说一些对我不尊重的话，我就会把你报告给版主。

Naomasa298
英国
Woman deputy mukhiya, son attacked for ‘daring’ to sit - The Times of India
（链接：http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Woman-deputy-mukhiya-son-attacked-for-daring-to-sit/articleshow/17934313.cms）
I'm fairly sure that caste discrimination exists in India. I've never been to the country, but we hear enough about it to suggest that old attitudes still exist amongst some sectors of the community. You can accuse me of being "anti-Indian" if you like, but you would be mistaken.
I'm sure efforts are being made to stamp it out, and anti-discrimination legislation is an important part of it, but it takes time to change social attitudes and sometimes, they can be deep-rooted, especially amongst more "traditional" communities.
I'm not going to derail this thread by discussing the issues in other countries, but it is rather like saying that social and racial discrimination doesn't exist in Europe. Despite anti-discrimination laws, those attitudes *do* exist, and discrimination happens in reality.

我十分肯定种姓歧视存在于印度。我从来没有去过这个国家，但是我听到了足够多的关于这个老观点（种姓歧视）任然存在于这个社会的一些群体之中的想法。如果你喜欢的话你可以指责我是一个“印度反对者”，但是你将是错误的。
可以肯定的是人们已经在努力改变这种种姓制度，而且确立反歧视法律是其中很重要的一部分，但是这需要花时间去改变社会的态度，而且有时候这种态度是根深蒂固的，尤其是在更多“传统”的社会群体中。
我不会通过讨论其他国家存在的议题来使这个帖子偏题，但这就像是在说欧洲不存在社会和种族歧视一样，尽管有反歧视法，这些态度依然存在，歧视也出现在现实之中。

rvsakhadeo
印度（回楼上）
I did not deny the existence of casteism in India. As I said it still exists in some pockets in the rural areas of the underdeveloped states. But for any one who has lived to an old age in India like me, it is clear that it is on its death bed. Our Social Workers are not exactly sleeping nor are the political parties. A massive churn is taking place across all the strata of our society. But you have to realize that this is nation of 1.23 billions and there many more problems cross connected with each other. It takes time to unravel the situation.

我不否认印度存在种姓制度。正如我说的那样它们只存在于欠发达州的农村地区的一些区域。但是对于像我这样在印度活到这么大岁数的人来说，无疑它们（种姓制度）正处于死亡的边缘。我们的社会工作者们（不包括政党）并没有完全睡着。一个巨大的改变正发生在我们社会各阶层的方方面面。但是你必须得相信这是一个拥有12.3亿人口的国家而且这儿有许多问题会互相影响。解决这种情况需要时间。

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：寒灯独夜人------------

Naomasa298
英国
Oh, I'm very sure that the situation today is much better than it used to be many years ago, I don't dispute that at all.
I should point out though that you did deny it exists - you said:（引用前文）
“Nobody discriminates against others on the grounds of their belonging to certain castes. ”

哦，我确实肯定如今的形势要比很多年前要好，我并不否定一切。
我只是要指出你刚刚否认了其（指种姓制度）依然存在 - 你说的
“没人会以其他人归属哪一类种姓而对其进行歧视。”

rvsakhadeo
印度
Not within my circle which as I said can consist of a " Universe " of several thousand people.

我可没说我的圈子能包括“全人类”中的绝大多数。

Naomasa298
英国
（回楼上）
All right, but you didn't add that qualifier in your post - you just said it didn't exist.
I'm sure your circle are all good people who don't discriminate, but even so, they only represent a small fraction of the 1.2 billion people in India.

没错，但是你的帖子里也没加入限数词啊 - 你只是说它（种姓制度）不存在了。
我相信你生活圈子里那些人都是没有歧视行为的好人，但并不是人人如此啊，你圈子里那些人只代表了12亿印度人中的一小部分。

rvsakhadeo
印度
How old are you and why have you not visited India so far ? Why don't you come and take a look around ?Apart from so many sites worth seeing, may be you will find things that may be educative too.

你多大了还有你为什么不到印度来参访一下呢？为什么你不来这里四处看看呢？除了有那么多网站值得看，也许你还能发现点什么或同时受点教育。

Naomasa298
英国
（回楼上）
I'm afraid I really don't have any interest in doing so. I have nothing against India at all, and I'm sure it's a very lovely and interesting country (some of the views I've seen of northern India are breathtaking), but it's not in my area of interest - not enough for me to go to the expense of a visit, in any case.

恐怕我真没兴趣这么做。我没有全盘否定印度，而且我觉得那是个美好的有趣的国度（不过从某些视角看，我觉得印度北部挺可怕的）。但是那不是我感兴趣的领域，何况我也没钱让我做这次参访。

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：chen_lt------------

rvsakhadeo
印度（此段针对上方Rosi的发言，也就是31楼）
I) When you say in your post no.31 in this thread that a " Lower Caste " person will be the best person to reply to the point raised by Merchant of Venice, after I had given my reply, you are clearly exhibiting the prejudice in your views against the persons other than the so called " lower castes ". Persons other than " lower castes " are also entitled to express their views on this forum.
II ) You often make sweeping statements, which moreover are derogatory in nature. As examples, I refer to statements " It is a bad country for the poor and the weak anyway ", " Sexual harassment is all over the place ", " Many,many girls are forced to marry, then forced to bear children " etc. in your post no. 216 in the thread " India's Women ". In the post no. 31 you have made a sweeping statement " In rural India there is a lot of contempt for people of lower classes ". I protest against such statements which paint a false picture of reality.

1）在我答复你以后，你却说最适合回答Merchant of Venice所提出问题的人是“低种姓”的人，这表明你对那些非低种姓人口也是存有偏见的。请记住，那些非种姓人口也是有权利在这个论坛里发表自己的观点的。
2）你经常写出点含糊的文字而实际上却饱含贬损。举例说明，我检索了你的文字，在索引为“印度妇女”里你的第216楼帖子中满是“这是个贫病交加的烂国家”，“性骚扰充斥各处”，“好多好多女孩子被强迫嫁人还被逼生子”等等。就在31楼的帖子里你又笼统的说“在印度农村有大量低阶层的人士被歧视”。我对这种抹黑现实的文字表示抗议。

rvsakhadeo
印度
If the posters permit me, I want to return to the exciting days of 1965 when we Indians became proud of our martial feats, for the first time.
When I was a student of the 1st year in college, in Nov. 1962, there was this clash of India with China in which we were humiliated--to say the least. Our brave soldiers died in the winter weather on high Himalayan battlefields wearing canvas shoes, WW2 vintage .303 rifles and without any proper winter clothing. Our Govt. was responsible for this fiasco, which was a source of national shame. You can imagine how badly we were rattled when listening to our befooled and egoistic Prime Minister addressed the Nation on the radio, claiming that China had stabbed India in the back.
So Gen. Ayub Khan , Pakistani dictator, tried out his Patton tanks in the Rann of Kuchh, in 1964 and thought India was fair game. In 1965 July Pakistan launched a regular army incursion and threatened to cut communications between Kashmir and the rest of India at the so-called " Chicken's Neck " area, our Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri took the game out of the hand of Pakistan by launching counter attacks using the Air Force for the first time ! Our tanks were told to cross into the Pakistani territory which they did at 3 or 4 places.
You cannot imagine the thrill that we felt when reading the banner headlines in the Times of India the next day with words to the effect that " Indian Army enters Pakistan at 3 places ! Indian jet fighters attack Pakistani airfields and air force stations ! " Our hostel mess was full of cheering students throwing the newspapers in the air and congratulating each other. The next fortnight was very interesting and full of pride that we were handing out beating rather than receiving it, for the first time.

要是帖友们同意，我回来接着讲述1965年那些令人激动的日子，我们印度人第一次在为我们战功而自豪。

1962年11月，我当时还是一名大一的学生，中国印度之间发生了一场至今让我们羞于启齿的冲突。我们英勇的士兵们在喜马拉雅山高海拔的冬季战场上，仅穿着帆布鞋，用着二战时期老式的0.303英寸（译注：7.7毫米，李恩菲尔德式）步枪在没有任何御寒衣物的情况下战死。我们的政府要为这次惨败负责，他们是造成这次国耻的根源。你们可以想象当我们紧张地听着我们那愚蠢的自私的总理通过电台向全国演讲，宣称中国向印度背后捅了一刀时，可以想象当时的情况有多恶劣。

因此1964年时巴基斯坦独裁者阿尤布•汗认为印度是个软柿子于是把他的巴顿式坦克派去了Kuchh的Rann。1965年七月巴基斯坦派出了正规部队侵入被称为“鸡脖子”的地区，并威胁切断克什米尔与印度的联系，我们的总理拉尔•巴哈杜尔•夏斯特里在第一时间用空军发动了反攻从巴基斯坦人手里夺回了主动权！我们坦克也突入巴基斯坦领土三到四处。

你无法想象当第二天在印度时报上看到大幅标题印着“印度陆军突入巴基斯坦3处国土！印度喷气式战斗机空袭了巴基斯坦机场和空军基地！”字样的时候我们有多激动，我们的宿舍到处都是欢庆的学生在向天上撒着报纸和相互道贺。接下来半个月的时间非常有趣也充满了骄傲，这还是第一次我们揍人多过挨揍。

-------------译者：zjykn-审核者：寒灯独夜人------------

Jinit
印度
As for my personal experience, My parents are from differant caste, althaugh socially the status of both caste is equall and it was arrenged marriage. Both my brother and sister are married into different castes. My maternal grandfather helped people who wanted to marry into different castes. And even the most orthodox people of my family never advised discrimination against the lower caste people. Having said so this is just my personal experience. I can't generalize it on the society. Althaugh they never taunted my parents or my grand parents for marrying their children into different castes. So I can assume that they might have similar attitude, too.
In general the condition of lower caste is like that of the African americans in US. Nobody speaks anything bad about them in general. and nobody discriminates against them in open. However the caste is very much alive in people's mind most probably because of the caste politics played by the politicians and positive discrimination against them by the goverment. And intially many parents still can't accept if their son or daughter chooses the spouse from the lower caste. And I have seen many of them. Althaugh sooner or later most of them accept the choice of their children. Worst condition is in the states like haryana and Rajasthan were things like honour killings still occurs. While I can assume that condition must be much better in south India due to the movement that started just after independence.
And as for the stastics.
“Scheduled Castes are sometimes referred to as Dalit in contemporary literature. In 2001, the proportion of Dalit population was 16.2 percent of India's total population.
Since 1950, India has enacted and implemented many laws and social initiatives to protect and improve the socio-economic conditions of its Dalit population. By 1995, of all jobs in the Central Government service, 17.2 percent of the jobs were held by Dalits. Of the highest paying, senior most jobs in government agencies and government controlled enterprises, over 10 percent were held by members of the Dalit community, a tenfold increase in 40 years but yet to fill up the 15 percent reserved quota for them. In 1997, India democratically elected K.R. Narayanan, a Dalit, as the nation's President. In the last 15 years, Indians born in historically discriminated minority castes have been elected to its highest judicial and political offices. While the quality of life of Dalit population in India, in terms of metrics such as poverty, literacy rate, access to health care, life expectancy, education attainability, access to drinking water, housing, etc. have seen faster growth amongst the Dalit population between 1986 and 2006, for some metrics, it remains lower than overall non-Dalit population, and for some it is better than poor non-Dalit population.
A 2003 report claims inter-caste marriage is on the rise in urban India. Indian societal relationships are changing because of female literacy and education, women at work, urbanization, need for two-income families, and influences from the media.
India's overall economic growth has produced the fastest and most significant socio-economic changes to the historical injustice to its minorities. Legal and social program initiatives are no longer India's primary constraint in further advancement of India's historically discriminated sections of society and the poor. Further advancements are likely to come from improvements in the supply of quality schools in rural and urban India, along with India's economic growth "

拿我的个人体验来说吧，我的父母分属不同的种姓，虽然这两个种姓在社会上被认为是处于同一地位，而且这场婚姻还是被安排的。我的哥哥和姐姐都和与他们不同种姓的人结了婚。我姥爷帮助那些跨种姓婚姻的人。就连我家里最老派的人，也从未说过歧视低种姓人的话。。不过我既然说了这是我的个人体验，我不能说整个社会都是这样的。但是他们从没对我父母和祖父母让孩子和不同种姓的人结婚这件事说三道四，所以我觉得其他人在对待这个问题是，和我家人的态度应该也差不多吧。
总的来说低种姓的生活状态就和非裔美国人一样。基本上没人会说他们的坏话，也没有人在公开场合歧视他们。但是种姓观念依旧根植在人们的脑中，很可能是因为那些种姓政治中的政客以及政府实施的给予弱势群体的优惠待遇。而且很多家长依然不能接受让他们的儿子或女儿和低种姓的人婚配。这样的例子我看到很多。虽然很多人最后都接受了他们孩子的选择。情况最糟糕的地方如哈里亚纳邦和拉贾斯坦邦，为了家族荣誉而痛下杀手的情况依然时有发生。但我依然认为南印度的情况要好很多，因为消除种姓差别的运动从印度独立后没多久就开始了。

如果拿数据来说的话。

“低种姓，也就是我们现在常说的贱民，2001年时，贱民在印度整个人口中所占的比例为百分之16.2 。从1950年开始，印度颁布和实施了很多法律和举措保护和提高贱民的社会经济状况。到了1995年，在中央政府工作的所有人中，贱民占据了百分之17.2的比例。在政府部门和国企里高薪资和高级工作岗位上，超过一成是由贱民占据，这一数据在40年里增长了十倍，但依然没有达到预留的百分之十五。1997年，印度通过民主选举，将贱民出身的K.R. Narayanan选为了总统。在过去的十五年里，出生于传统上来说被歧视的少数低种姓的印度人被选为高级法院和政府部门的官员。至于贱民在印度的生活质量，从贫困率，识字率，健康保障，预期寿命，接受教育程度，获取饮用水，住房等指标上都在1986年至2006年这些年间飞速增长，某些指标虽然在总量上仍低于非贱民的人群，但有些已经高于贫穷的非贱民人群。

一份2003年的报告指出跨种姓婚姻在印度的城市里面有所增长。印度社会关系正在因为女性的识字和教育，女性的工作，城市化，双薪家庭的需要以及媒体的影响而改变。
印度整体的经济增长对传统上遭受不公的少数群体已经产生了快速而深刻的社会经济上的变化。法律，社会项目不再是低种姓人群和穷人在社会上发展的主要制约条件了。更深的进步将可能随着印度经济的增长，为印度的农村和城市提供更多优质的学校。

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：chen_lt------------

Jinit
印度
National TV used to be so much creative and interesting in pre liberlization era. Most of the people still remember the programmes that they used to broad cast on national TV in 80s and 90s. including the ads like Mile sur mera tumhara.
Btw Recently TOI released the new version. But it didn't give the same feeling as the older one.

国家电视台在前自由化时代曾经挺有创意和趣味。绝大多数人民依旧记得国家电视台80~90年代播放节目。包括像Mile sur mera tumhara的广告。
顺便提一下，最近TOI开始放新版了，可是已经找不到昔日那种熟悉的感觉了。

rvsakhadeo
印度（回楼上）
Yes, many of the programmes / serials on the National TV were very good. I still remember " Humlog ", " what is a good word " etc.
Even till today I enjoy the 26th January march past !
The thrill of daily learning of the victorious results of the dogfights between our old British WW2 make Gnat fighters and the Sabre jets gifted by Pakistan's friend-for-ever, increased after we knew that our Army was on the verge of entering Lahore.
However, it was short lived, as we learnt later that the Army C-in-C had decided against going into the city fearing the street battles may take a heavy toll of our soldiers.
The war ended with a ceasefire and peace negotiations followed at Tashkent, when the peace agreement was signed possibly under pressure from both USSR and Pakistan's friend- for- ever. Our lightly built fragile PM, Lal Bahadur Shastri died on the same night , leaving an entire Nation in shock and grief.

是的，国家电视台的好多节目、连续剧都很不错。我依旧记得像 " Humlog ", " what is a good word " 等等这些节目。
每年1月26日我都在欣赏阅兵游行。

（译注：1月26日为印度共和国日，即国庆节）

我们每天为得知自己的老式英制二战时期的蚋式战斗机和巴基斯坦从他那“永远的朋友”处得到的佩刀式喷气战斗机发生缠斗，并取得了一系列战果而激动不已，当听到我们的军队兵临拉合尔并准备入城时更加兴奋了。
但是，（快乐）就是那么短暂，我们后来才知道陆军总司令因害怕巷战造成我军重大伤亡才决定不进入城市。
在塔什干进行了和平磋商后停火，战争结束了，这个和平协议的签署多半是迫于来自苏联和巴基斯坦“永远的朋友”的压力
（译注：搞不清楚这里“永远的朋友”应该是指中国还是指美国，上段空战中提到的佩刀式喷气机是美军装备，但第二次印巴战争期间中国提供巴基斯坦大量军援甚至不惜从现役装备中调集支援巴方，并向印度发出出兵警告，迫使印度在拉河）
我们的总理草签了那脆弱的和平协定，当晚拉尔·巴哈杜尔·夏斯特里总理就去世了，举国陷入震惊和悲伤之中。

（译注：Gnat“蚋”式教练/战斗机应该是1950年代开发研制的，二战时期的应是英制”蚊“式螺旋桨双引擎战斗机，而且大量采用木质结构。这里可能是这位印度网友搞错了。 Sabre即美国F-86佩刀喷气式战斗机。）

rvsakhadeo
印度
The days of the Prime Minister Indira Gandhi started badly with a severe drought in the year 1966 which caused great food shortages all over the country. Does any of the Indian posters recall those days when we were importing Preboiled rice from Thailand in sacks of hessian cloth ? This rice was served in our mess and I tell you it stank badly like rotten fish.
Indira Gandhi then declared that the import of basic food grains like Rice was a national shame, she really pushed for self sufficiency in food grains thereafter. We did become self sufficient in food not much afterwords, and the drought of 1972 did not lead to food grains panic import like in 1966.

1966年英迪拉·甘地总理（的执政）开局不顺，一连串的干旱导致全国食物短缺。有哪位印度贴友还记得我们从泰国进口粗麻包包装蒸谷米的那些日子吗？在那段困难的时期里，我吃的就是这种米，我告诉你那种米像烂掉的鱼一样臭。
英迪拉·甘地当时宣称连最基本的粮食也要进口那是国耻。此后她确实推进了粮食自给自足。没过多久，我们就在粮食上自给自足了。1972年旱灾时就不至于像1966年那样还需要进口粮食了。

（译注：蒸谷米，俗称“半熟米”，是以稻谷为原料，经清理、浸泡、蒸煮、干燥等水热处理后，再按常规稻谷碾米加工方法生产的大米制品，具有营养价值高、出饭率高、出油率高、储存期长、蒸煮时间短等特点）

-------------译者：Mariner-审核者：chen_lt------------

Jinit
印度
Most probably there isn't any other active Indian memebr that is as old an experienced as you are. So nobody has seen the 60s and 70s like you did. However my grandpa once told me that food crisis was severe during those days. People used to celebrate the function of marriage ceremonies in secret so as to avoid the police raids. There was strict rationing in those days.
It is a real pleasure to read about the story of India through your eyes. I am looking forward for your posts on the emergency days. If possible give some detailed account on the emergency days as for me it is one of the most interesting time period in the history of independent India.
14th January is celebrated as Makar sankranti in India. It is the day with religious significance, althaugh it is celebrated in differant ways in differant parts of the India. However kite flying is invariably a part of the celebration.
Interestingly it is also the only festival that is celebrated according to solar calendar in contrast to all the other hindu festivals which are celebrated according to lunar calender. The day marks transition (sankranti) of sun into capricorn (Makar)
（http://www.historum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMakar_Sankranti）

这里其他大多数印度用户不如您这样年长而又阅历丰富。所以没人象您那样了解60~70年代的事。不过我爷爷曾经告诉过我那段日子里的粮食危机。老百姓甚至连庆祝活动和结婚都不敢大张旗鼓生怕引来警察抄家。那些日子都实行严格的配给制度。
真是非常有幸能通过你的所见所闻了解印度的往事。我希望以后能看到你有关那段严峻的日子的帖子。如果方便的话请给我提供些关于那段严峻日子的详细资料，那是印度独立后我最感兴趣的时期之一。
在印度1月14日要庆祝玛克桑格拉提节，这是个宗教节日，印度各地都会以不同方式进行庆祝。但不管怎样，放风筝是不变的庆祝方式。有趣的是玛克桑格拉提节是印度仅有的以太阳历法来庆祝的节日，而其他节日都是以月亮历法来庆祝。那天标志着太阳移向了摩羯座。
（http://www.historum.com/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMakar_Sankranti）

rvsakhadeo
印度
Thanks for your comments. I will certainly give you a detailed account of the emergency days. But before that, I will give you details of the '71 war,the Indira triumph, and the Jaiprakash Narayan agitation, the Court case filed by Raj Narain which toppled her etc. etc.
In the 1967-68 drought situation there was restriction on the number of guests to be served dinner/lunch. It was called " Guest Control Order ". It was lifted in 1970 or so. This restriction was reimposed in 1972 drought also.It was lifted in 1973. Such type of restrictions are sometimes necessary, because there is a great wastage of food in marriage banquets etc. We Indians are careless in the use of water and energy too. We may soon regret our misuse of water !

谢谢你的评论，我保证会给你有关那段严峻日子的详情。不过在这之前我会给你讲讲关于“71年之战（注：即第三次印巴战争），英迪拉的成就，和Jaiprakash Narayan骚乱，还有Raj Narain 反英迪拉的诉讼案例”等等内容。
在1967~1968旱灾形势下，对午餐/晚餐的就餐客人数量进行了限制，史称“限客令”，直到1970年才解除。到了1972年因为旱灾这条禁令又被搬了出来，在1973年又撤销了。这条禁令这类禁令有的时候海神很有必要的，因为婚宴上会浪费大量的食物，我们印度人对水和能源的使用上总是漫不经心，结果很快我们为了水被滥用而追悔莫及！

（译注：上世纪70年代Jaiprakash Narayan领导了印度全国性反贪腐运动，反对的目标是当时的总理英迪拉·甘地及其内阁。
Raj Narain，印度政治家，71年时候控告英迪拉甘地选举舞弊并发动请愿活动。一生被捕80次，共坐了17年牢，1977~80年任印度卫生部部长。）

【龙腾】印度人自述：还原一个真实的印度(中）